PLT meeting in Thunder Bay synopsis by Fred Mueller

Aug 18, 2008 10:00 – 12:00

 

When I arrived, there was a line past the front desk of people trying to get

in to the meeting.  No one seemed to know if the room was full or why there

was a line-up.  Turned out that everyone was signing in.  As a result, the

meeting didn't get underway until around 10:20. Both of our local MPP's were

there (Bill Mauro & MNDM Minister Michael Gravelle) and they each spent a

few minutes talking.  Michael Gravelle spoke of how the important issue was

'fairness' and Bill Mauro emphasized that the PLT reform was due to AMO

complaints (Assoc. of Municip. of Ont.) and the provincial government had

little to do with it.  [Do you notice I'm NOT inserting editorial comment?]

Bill Mauro emphasized how he's been explaining to the Min. of Finance that

we already pay for roads, education, etc., in the unincorporated areas and

that many of these residences are seasonal.

 

Then Helen Harper from MOF took over and explained that the order of the

meeting would be 5 min. for opening remarks; 15 min. for her explanation of

the PLT so far; and 100 min. for questions from the floor.  She was the lead

speaker for the rest of the session, with the occasional comment from the

MPP's.  She then went through some hand-outs; most of which we've seen

before.  She kept emphasizing that it was revenue-neutral; that half of the

people will see a tax reduction, etc.  Essentially what the letter from the

Minister of Finance said.  There will be four tax classes (residential &

multi-residential will be treated the same, max. rate will be $230 or $40

per $100,000 property); farm & forest lands will be at 25% of the

residential rate; commercial rate will be no higher than $120 per $100,000

and industrial will be no more than $60 per $100K.

 

She said the MOF was promising that if total assessments came in at less

than they expected, those rates would still represent a maximum.  The rates

might be lower if the total assessments are more than expected..

 

At this point there were lots of questions; and the rest of the meeting was

more or less spent answering them.  Some were from the floor verbally, some

were written down on forms they had available.  I'll try to summarize what

stuck in my head; if I miss something important, maybe the others will jump

in.  There were lots of questions regarding assessments; some she answered;

some she said to contact MPAC for the answers.

 

She said MPAC said they visited every uninc. property between 2005 and 2007.

She said there have been changes made to the MPAC appeals process to make it

more user friendly.  Assessments are based on market value and not

replacement value.  The cost to the MOF of the MPAC assessments wasn't known

but was less than one year's income.  Later she said that the total PLT

revenues are around $10.5 million.

 

There were several questions about the fairness of having two residential

rates (for inside and out of school boards).  The gist of the answer was

that those in school board areas have always paid interim PLT, so that's

just how it was.  The commercial and industrial rates were lower than

residential because historically that's how it was.

 

When asked what services these taxes were for she listed off the usual:

DSSAB services, district health, policing.  When complaints came up that

lots of the services were lower or non-existant in the remote areas, the

answer was that the assessed value should reflect that.

 

There was some heated discussion over whether this information session was

'consultations' promised by the MOF.  The MPP's both got involved; the end

result was that yes, it was.

 

There was also severe criticism of the secrecy surrounding the whole

process, and that revenue-neutrality was just an excuse for not doing their

homework and figuring out what the rates should be based on costs.  There

wasn't a good answer to that; but she did throw out that the actual costs of

social services in the unincorporated areas was 3 - 4 times the tax.  (I.e.

their calculation of the total costs are around $30 - $40 million) [Okay,

I've got to comment:  this doesn't take into account the 2:1 subsidy for

municipal contributions, nor the provincial share of the over-all costs --

municipalities & unincorp. only pay a portion of the total costs for the

programs]

 

I pointed out our research indicated that the municipal taxpayer was paying

only $100 per $100,000 for the same services that we  may pay $230 for.  I

also asked about the 2:1 subsidies the municipalities enjoy and whether that

was also going to be extended to the unincorporated areas.  She had no

answer for the first question, but the MPP's said there was a committment

within the Liberal government to extend 2:1 funding for all roads boards.

No word on when.  There was a question as to whether the MTO would be

cutting their contributions for roads to 1/2 : 1.  That was denied, and MPP

Bill Mauro promised to find out where the story came from.

 

Other notes:  all PLT taxes go into the consolidated revenue fund and the

dollars can't be tracked in and out.  If we want our contributions to the

DSSAB and health units to be labelled as tax contributions and not as

provincial grants, we should talk to the Min. of Social Services and Min. of

Health.  Ideally, the MOF would like to find a municipal partner (could be

school board) to administer collecting the PLT; there might then be only one

tax bill for unincorporated ratepayers (with separate lines for PLT,

education, roads, and local service boards).  There will be no phase-in of

these taxes because the increases are relatively small.  There are no plans

to raise the tax rates -- whatever they end up being -- for the foreseeable

future.

 

That's about it.  I have a few suggestions for the next meetings:  there

were lots of media there and we got good coverage on the news in the

afternoon.  You may want a spokesperson to be ready for that.  Also, if you

have technical questions or lots of questions, write them out and give it to

them as a submission.  They'll have time to read it on their next plane

flight.  The meeting lasted a bit longer than noon, and there were a number

of small groups in the halls discussion various issues.  It's a good time to

put some pressure on your MPP's.

 

I think they were a bit surprised at the level of turn-out.   If Kenora has

a large turn-out as well, our messages might get back to Toronto.

 

--Fred

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